source file: mills2.txt Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 01:35:22 -0700 Subject: RE: RE: Iranian Music From: baazarga@ee.sharif.ac.ir On 13-SEP-1995 14:23:06.63 Mr. Liu (linusliu@HK.Super.NET) wrote: >Only a few days ago, I posted the intervals of the "Chinese Scale". >It so happens that my scale is exactly the same as Mr. Moradi's >Iranian music, SYSTEM I: >>(1) {C:[1/1] , G:3/2 , D:9/8, A:27/16 , E:81/64 , B:243/128 } >Rewritting it out becomes: > C-9/8-D-9/8-E-(16/15)-(F)-(10/9)-G-9/8-A-9/8-B-(16/15)-(C') > 1/1 9/8 81/64 (27/20?) 3/2 27/16 243/128 (81/40?) The scale which Mr. Linus Linu had introduced as Chinese scale is not the same as the mode which we introduced as Iranian mode. The forth interval in Meadle East music is very essential and exactly equals to 4/3. In system I, we emphasis that the semitone is 256/243, not 16/15. (16/15 and 10/9 are related to System II). The interval 27/20 instead of 4/3 has no use in Iranian music at all. Chines(Linu's)> 1/1 9/8 81/64 (27/20?) 3/2 27/16 243/128 (81/40?) Ancient System> 1/1 9/8 81/64 4/3* 3/2 27/16 243/128 2/1* Ancient system is the base for the current oriental systems. System I, part 1 which Mr. Linu refrenced is a part of the ancient mode which was first introduced by Pythagoras (600 yrs BC). It's not our invention. Mr. Linu also wrote: >It is a great dismay that Mr. Moradi also gave the mean half-tone >of 10/9 (lima), and gave it the very approximate ratio of 65536/59049, >which shows that Mr. Moradi is not concerned about true accuracy. 10/9 is not half tone or lima, 65536/59049 is the exact value for lima+lima, which Ormavi (-1294 DC), the great Iranian sage and musician has introduced; This interval, indicates Ormavi's system. Maraghi (-1434 DC) assumed this interval as 10/9 (more than 100 years before Zarlino 1517-1590 DC). The difference between 10/9 and 65536/59049 is 1.95 cents, quite toleratable. Our most important references were: 1- Al Farabi, Abunasr Mohammad (874-950), Kitab al Musiqa Al Kabir (Great music book) Cairo 1969 (in Arabic) 2-Ormavi, Safi od-din (-1294) Al Adwar, translated to Farsi- Revue Musical, Tehran 1960-61 3-Qotb od-din Shirazi (-1310) Dorrat ot-Taj , Tehran 1922 4-Maraqi, Abdol-Qader (-1434) Maqased Al Alhan , Elmi Farhangi prs. Tehran 1966 5-Maraqi, Abdol-Qader Jame Al-Alhan ,Elmi Farhangi prs. Tehran 1987 6-Vaziri, AliNaqi, Musiqie nazari , Published by author, Tehran 1935 7-El Helow, Salim LA MUSIQUE THEORIQUE ,Beirut 1961 (in Arabic) 8-Musiki ve Nota ,Istanbul 1969-1972 (in Turkish) (All references are in Farsi unless otherwise mentioned) Reference No 1 is translated to many languages, including French (by R.d'Erlanger, 1930) and English. I got my BS in music in 1970 from the Fine-Art faculity of Tehran university. While I was a student I lectured reference number 4, representing of prof. Dr. Barkeshli; since then I'm working on the theory of Iranian music, and for 30 years I produced Iranian traditional music programs in Radio and TV. Mojanab (Minor tone) is the essential interval in ITM (Iranian traditional music), although Vosta (normal third) is the most important interval in one of the most popular modes (Segah). [Vosta = Mojanab + whole tone (9/8)]. >From exprimental studies on 3 most trustworthy singers, we measured the intervals in mode 'Segah', and find Mojanab = 25/23 (144.36 cents), Vosta = 225/184 (348.29 c). I could generalize this measurment to other mods of ITM. I searched in my references for this intervals and the nearest was 162/149 (144.83c) introduced by Farabi (Ref#1). In next searach, I find that Farabi had vaguely and indirectly introduced 88/81 (143.51c) in relation with 12/11 (Mojanab analogous with Vosta-Zalzal = 27/22) : 88/81= (32/27) / (12/11). (32/27 = Vosta-Qadime) Since the different between 88/81 and 25/23 is very small we selected this interval, and used for playing with computer. It was confirmed by musicians. So 11/9 is the Vosta analogous with this Mojanab. (88/81 * 9/8 = 11/9) According to Arab musicologists, Mojanab = 12/11 and Vosta-Zalzal = 27/22 is used in arabian music, but not in ITM. We had wrote: >========================================================================== >SYSTEM II is just as SYSTEM I but the minor tone and Major semitone are >different. Instead of 88/81, we use (256*256)/(243*243) = 65536/59049 which >the theorists assume = 10/9, and Instead of 2187/2048, we use 16/15. >========================================================================== We have not recieved the system which Mr. Linu mentioned, but the system he mentioned in his letter is completly alien to the Iranian music. We have also worked on other systems for Oriental Music, but have not published the results yet. Regards, Freydun Moradi Received: from eartha.mills.edu [144.91.3.20] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:16 +0100 Received: from by eartha.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for id EAA05476; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 04:16:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 04:16:04 -0700 Message-Id: <009968882161B3C0.1326@ezh.nl> Errors-To: madole@ella.mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu