source file: mills2.txt Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:58:39 -0800 Subject: Re: notation From: Johnny Reinhard On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, Paul Rapoport wrote: > If more than a few cents variations are put in front of a performer, I'd > guess that either it wouldn't make any difference, or it would be > difficult, unless you want only gross approximations. Change to "if less than a few cents" and the above statement would be accurate. Just relationships are heard on a different level...a separate track form linear measurement by cents. > I must say that the concept of modern woodwind instruments playing > microtonal music is one that does not interest me much. Not meant to upset > Johnny, who probably has more experience in this than anyone, but I don't > find the resultant timbres acceptable in many cases, and the awkward > fingerings work against all the developments of these instruments in the > past 200 years (possibly bassoon excepted). > Johnny, I'd be interested in your comments on this. Today I learned a bit more about bagpipes than I would ever have before, so I understand your lack of involvement with woodwinds. Contrary to what you might think, microtones are rather easily invoked by professional players. One would be hard pressed to tell whether a microtone was played or a "normal" note. I once played the slow movement melody of the Mozart Bassoon Concerto a quartertone low during a lecture in York, England and asked if anyone heard any microtones. They answered assuredly - not at all. I then told them that each and every note was a microtone and they were aghast. > > That is far easier than performing from a 7th or 13th harmonic sort of > > description, because with that you'd have think - in realtime, on the fly - "OK, > > what's the root of this chord (that in itself is especially tough since any > > realistic performance each performer will have PARTS, and not the whole > > conductor's score)? How does this note relate to that root? How much flat is a > > 13th harmonic from the closest 12TET pitch?" Or similarly, in 17TET say, "OK, > > what's the tonic now? Which scale step is this note relative to that tonic? > > How much sharp or flat is that 17TET note from the 12TET value that my > > instrument is designed to play?" > > I don't think so. In JI in particular, the relationships are important, > and you may not have to have a score, although knowing where your note > "comes from" is significant. It may come from a previously sounding note. > And in a fair amount of JI, the number of different notes in a passage > (however defined) may not be high, so that memorizing a relationship sign > isn't difficult, and no more so than a cents value. I agree that it's not > easy, and in ETs it's still harder. > > It won't take a sharp person to figure that I don't work with performers > very often in this material, partly because all the notations are a > problem, which reflects bigger problems in actually performing the music > with all but the most dedicated and experienced performers. In the > electronic case, the relationships in the score are paramount and then the > cents variations are not helpful unless you've memorized their > relationships--in which case why not use the relationships directly? Wherein an instrument can utilize tabliture, use it. Guitar chords or Harry Partch Bass Marimba notation make sense because of the culture surrounding those respective instruments. Cents notation as I've described it puts the player in the "ball park" so that they can appreciate the relative qualities of specific intervallic relationships. For instance: if you want a player to play a 5/4 above a C, notate it as an E -14 and the player will IMMEDIATELY understand the the traditional E is to be approached at a lower pitch level, thereby aiding in the understanding of placing the pitch _in relation_ to another. If you want a player to play a 5/4 above a C +10, then notate an E -4. Players would see that the E -4 is not so different than a traditional E, just shaded in a low direction. If one uses cents combined with a basic quartertone notation, then it will not be necessary to "teach" players much at all, which will more than likely make them happier about participating in a new sonic adventure. I think it is incumbant upon a microtonal composer that is writing for players to utilize the decades of learning that they have invested in their careers. They will realize the justice of the new intervals. Johnny Reinhard Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:24 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA00690; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:25:38 +0100 Received: from eartha.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA00688 Received: from by eartha.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for id QAA05722; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:25:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:25:35 -0800 Message-Id: Errors-To: madole@ella.mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu