source file: mills2.txt Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:11:05 -0800 Subject: RE: Vertical Puns From: Daniel Wolf <106232.3266@compuserve.com> I wrote: >(b) A similar flip-flop may obtain in Just Intonation between chords that >are ambiguously harmonic or subharmonic. Paul wrote: ''Do you really believe this phenomenon exists? If so, can you suggest an experiment that could demonstrate its existence?'' 1. Sure. All chords built on repeated intervals will have this character. 2. I assume that you mean some kind of perceptual experiment. Short of an EEG, all tests I can imagine involve some kind of identification or labeling, which has a lot to do with training or conditioning - and the phenomena here is already quite technical for trained musicians. So, with trained musicians, I would suggest testing chords aside from Major or minor triads, due to our overconditioning with these particular animals (although some voicings of four-tone chords containing both Major and minor triads also have this ambiguity: try 10:12:15:16). One totally subjective example: The triad: 330 - 440 - 495 (Hz). I hear it sometimes as /8 : /9 : /12 and sometimes as 6 : 8 : 9. In particular, if it is arpeggiated descending I tend to hear it as subharmonic, ascending, harmonic. As a single gestalt, I flip-flop with a slight preference towards the subharmonic interpretation - possibly because of the smaller interval on top. As for a test with untrained listeners, I have no idea of how to do it without running into the problems of finding adjectives to characterize chords. Perhaps you can be more specific about what kind of experimental information you seek. Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:47 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA19300; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:50:25 +0100 Received: from eartha.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA19222 Received: from by eartha.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for id JAA07021; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:50:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:50:13 -0800 Message-Id: <60970116175006/0005695065PK3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu