source file: mills2.txt Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:53:12 -0800 Subject: To Charles Lucy, ghosttones From: Matt Nathan Charles Lucy wrote: > This is in response to Matt Nathan's posting 19 Feb re. > "ghosttones", which he calls "flageolet tones" Actually, it was Adam B. Silverman who contributed that definition. Are you reading the list? A number of definitions have been contributed by myself and others in the last 2-3 weeks. I know you saw my Backus quote, because you responded to it, yet you asked for definitions again. > >Fretting positions say nothing about ghosttones. A > >fretted string is effectively an open string with shorter > >length. One can place frets at arbitrary positions and > >produce equally strong sounds. Please explain the > >sequence of ghosttones which occur in a series of fourths > >and fifths. > > The reason that I listed the fretting positions is that > these fret positions give you the positions at which you > will find the flageolet tones. (By touching the string > lightly above the fret, without depressing it.) > Use the fret positions as a guide. Are you sure that the ghosttone positions line up exactly with the fret positions, and aren't slightly displaced in some places? Giving the frequencies of fretted notes doesn't specify the frequencies of the ghosttones you get when you touch the string directly above or near those frets. Please just give me a simple list of the ghosttones in your proposed series, with their frequencies and string positions, and don't include string positions which have no ghosttones--they just clutter the list. The best way to notate the string positions would probably be as a percentage of string length, since this can be translated to any string, and easily compared to other models of where vibrational nodes are found. > >> "Ghosttones" can be found at frets close in the cycle > >> of fourths and fifths. > >> i.e. Through fifths E, B, F#, C#, G#, etc. > >> Through fourths D, G, C, F, Bb, Eb etc. > > I am assuming that you are calling the open string A > (i.e. guitar fifth for example). That was your text, so you should know. > >What are the frequencies of these ghosttones > > They are usually related to the pitch found at the > corresponding fret when it is played. (as a fifth > and an octave above) or close on the chain of fourths > and fifths. Saying "usually related to..." is not a sufficient specification. > I need to get a LucyTuned guitar and find the > notenames and pitches for you. How is it that you don't already know the pitches of the ghosttone sequence for which you claim to have a better model? > >When you say "at fret...B" do you mean only a single > >fret or all the frets which produce B's? > > I was initially referring to the fret in the first > octave i.e. II fret on your 'A' string. So the other frets which produce B's don't represent ghosttone positions? > On the spiral of fourths and fifths. > As far as I recall (retest needed) on 'A' string. > Loudest is at octave (midpoint of string); Where does an octave fit into a sequence of fourths and fifths? As you know, no number of fourths and fifths will produce an octave (except in equal temperaments). > and octave above (2nd octave fret); 3/4 of distance > nut to bridge: Same problem; octaves never occur in a sequence of fourths and fifths. Please explain this contradiction. > next at first octave E fret (approx. > 1/3 of distance nut to bridge) Have you measured the frequencies of the open string and this ghosttone using a tuner to see if their interval ratio is indeed 2.988824? This would be an obvious first test of your model. Matt Nathan Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:54 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA12159; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:54:47 +0100 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA12169 Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id TAA23761; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:53:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:53:07 -0800 Message-Id: Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu