source file: mills2.txt Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:35:11 -0800 Subject: Beethoven and C#/Db From: Will Grant Well ... perhaps I wasn't writing so clearly as I'd hoped. Some of the responses didn't seem to follow from what I thought I'd said ! I shall amplify only what was, I think, my most interesting point, which was about a remark someone else in Tuning quoted from Beethoven, that he could hear a difference between C# and Db. I don't know the source; I'm taking it at face value. When someone of Beethoven's competence makes a remark that seems nonsensical, I suggest that the best thing to do is to assume that he was saying something reasonable, but that he was saying it with a shorthand, or that he was making unmentioned assumptions and corollaries, or something of that sort. I mean, it seems far more likely that Beethoven would make an error of verbal communication than that he'd make a musical error. Now, surely everybody who reads this list is aware that C# and Db are physically identical on a piano. Since Beethoven probably also knew this, what did he mean when he said that they were different ? I am only guessing, of course, but perhaps he was referring to the expectations set up by different harmonic contexts. V in F# Major (which would be C# Major) would perhaps be reasonably expected to feel more brilliant than flat VI in F Major (which would be Db Major). Any good tuner could favor one way or the other. (Someone else also mentioned something like this in the last Tuning.) Also, the piano itself could slip to a different flavor from that at which it had been set if, for example, the pin block were holding unevenly. A fortepiano (which is what Beethoven was often playing) can slip quite a bit if you play it hard, and Beethoven played so hard that he broke strings sometimes. In which case, as another possibility, it would be understandable for him to talk about a difference between C# and Db. But I don't pretend to know what Beethoven meant in this case. I think it's interesting food for thought. Yours, Will Grant Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:34 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA06328; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:34:28 +0100 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA06329 Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id WAA23361; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:32:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:32:58 -0800 Message-Id: Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu