source file: mills2.txt Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:46:44 +0200 Subject: All Natural Scales! No artificial ingredients! From: DFinnamore@aol.com Graham Breed writes: >My point is that ET scales _are_ natural. Of course, >the word "natural" could mean a lot of things. In this case, in >relation to mathematics, acoustics, human instinct or patterns >found in the natural world. I think it's the last one you mean, >which is fair enough. Right. Actually, acoustical principles would be included in the set of patterns found in the natural world, and are the basis of operation for all of the instruments we use to make our music audible, as well as the for the spaces in which we hear the audio, and for our very ears. In short, acoustical principles regulate everything we do with respect to making music audible. Doesn't that mean that they should theoretically be the foundation of tuning? Indeed, no one has said otherwise on this list, and, as you said, an oft-cited reason for pursuing ETs is that they offer useful ways to approximate JI. That is a very good reason. We find that ET scales, while they may make a certain kind of mathematical sense, do not correspond (exactly) to principles of acoustics. That doesn't make them "bad." But depending on other factors (I'm in the process of trying to find out what all of those are), it _may_ mean that they are not theoretically the most productive route for pursuing the development of music in the long run. That certainly doesn't mean that they shouldn't be used when their compromises are helpful to musicians and instrument designers. And, of course, someone must study several of them to find out which are most helpful, and in which ways. Uh oh, I'm rebutting myself. You mentioned human instinct. Now here's where I may be way off the beam. I'm working on the assumption that humans are part of nature, and that, therefore, our "instincts" or whatever you want to call them, should be in line with acoustical principle. In other words, it seems that we should respond most strongly to music whose theory is most firmly based on the way that sound (and all other) waves behave. So everything in the list you made above should theoretically give the same result. I hope. Call me an idealist. O.K. - you can see the whites of my eyes - fire at will! :-> >If you want to exploit JI with hair splitting accuracy, I >expect you'd have to work with slow, harmonic music with perfectly >harmonic timbres and no vibrato. Otherwise, go with whatever's >simplest. I don't, really. I grew up on blues, bluegrass, black gospel, and rock, as well as "classical," to use the term in the typically overbroad way. I'm firmly addicted to expressive pitch variations of all sorts and recognize their musical usefulness, even their virtual necessity. Speaking of which, the way that black church choirs tend to tune their major triads just kills me - I wish I knew what they were doing! I know it's not a simple matter of three distinct pitches. Can anybody out there give an analysis? What I think I want is for the foundation of Western music to be truly JI again, and for the "spices" to be variations from that, not from an ET approximation of it. Small differences in pitch seem to make a big difference in the power of a chord. You can retain the power while adding expressiveness by sliding into a JI chord, or by sliding around over the top of a JI chord. That's what really good string sections tend toward with 12-tET compositions anyway. If we compose with JI as the goal, how much more potent the results could be! And how much more variety would be available with limits imposed (specific pitch options chosen) on a piece-by-piece basis! And how much longer we'd all have to study in school to learn it all! Oh, well; something's got to give. What I think (and this whole paragraph is to be regarded as an opinion in progress, not a statement of dogma) is that 12-tET led us practically to a dead end in less than 200 years. It did so because it is an ET. But it was arguably the best choice under the circumstances. Looking back, I kinda wish they had abandoned keyboards and frets rather than JI. Should we now head for another dead end, or even a set of dead ends? Now is the time to pick up where they left off and continue with the development of Western music on the track they had to abandon for lack of technological prowess (or courage?). David J. Finnamore Just tune it! Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:48 +0200 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA03183; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:48:12 +0200 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:48:12 +0200 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA03181 Received: (qmail 29231 invoked from network); 15 May 1997 19:48:06 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 May 1997 19:48:06 -0000 Message-Id: <970515154250_-598090419@emout15.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu