source file: mills2.txt Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:07:31 +0200 Subject: modes vs keys (was: JI modes) From: "Collins, Gordon" Daniel Wolf wrote: >Although the art repertoire indeed became Major/minor, the training with >the church modes remained quite traditional. Composers learned with Fux >well into the nineteenth century (and again in the late twentieth century: >indeed, the fashionable Schenkerian training is fundamentally Fuxian) The rules of counterpoint certainly continued to be taught (and still are, no?), but most apply equally well to tonal music. The Well-Tempered Clavier is not modal! And surely the concepts of chord progressions and key relationships have been far more fundamental in musical training. >(I don't know quite what to say about the German chorale >tradition where old, distinctively modal melodies are harmonized tonally - .. thereby producing tonal music!! Perhaps we're using different definitions of tonality, but the one I know defines it in terms of key centers, chord progressions, and modulation, not melody. Since you often put "modal" in quotes, I'm not sure what you mean by it. Are you saying that Schumann wrote pieces that do not modulate or use chordal (tonal) harmony? I do need to beat a retreat from my hasty generalization about the use of modes ("well, hardly ever"...), especially regarding 20th century music, but I remain unconvinced that modes have ever returned as the *basis* of music theory or compositional styles in the Western classical tradition. Bill Alves wrote: >I don't see why refering to major and minor as modes is misleading. In my >definition of modes in the European tradition, they include at least the >following defining characteristics: >[...snip...] >3) A tonal center within that subset. Are you just referring to the _final_ of the mode, or do you really mean "tonal center" defined harmonically? Because that is the defining distinction between modes and keys. A key is not just a set of notes - it is determined by chordal structure rather than melodic formulae. Gordon Collins Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Fri, 23 May 1997 23:00 +0200 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA08896; Fri, 23 May 1997 23:00:01 +0200 Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:00:01 +0200 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA08893 Received: (qmail 21359 invoked from network); 23 May 1997 20:59:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 May 1997 20:59:54 -0000 Message-Id: <3385784A@fsdsmtpgw.fsd.jhuapl.edu> Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu