source file: mills3.txt Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 03:22:47 +0100 Subject: aliens who actually like worthless lemons! From: "kris peck" OK, I'm being a sucker for the flame bait. Every once in awhile I get gullible and respond to things that are so obviously ridiculous it should really be beneath me. Sigh... But I have some moments with which to attempt to articulate some thoughts which seems to be floating around on the list recently. This list typically is home to a lot of thoughtful, challenging, and yes, wildly opinionated people. Usually subjective tastes are admitted as such. But every so often some fanatic appears insisting that his own theories are the only possible correct ones while everyone else's are "worthless" and apparently believing that repeating the same opinions over and over with increasing forcefulness makes them more universally true. Typically this personality will claim absolute truth for his opinions based on the latest "scientific research", and then ironically portray himself as a lonely defender of populist human values valiantly battling against an army of soulless academics. And so we have recently learned that all music apparently fits into two neat categories: 1) Music which is optimally expressed in 19ET, and 2) Worthless.(also synonymous with mechanical dissonant noise produced by academic elitists) My own experience... My introduction to microtonality came when I somewhat coincidentally attended a Newband performance of some of Partch's music. (Including "Daphne.." and "Castor..") At that time, I knew nothing whatsoever of tuning theory -- definitions of consonance/dissonance, prime limits, commas, melodic lemons, or whatever. I did not even know the difference between equal temperament and just intonation! Yet this music thrilled my soul. It was absolutely glorious. My entire way of perceiving and thinking about music was forever dramatically altered from one single concert. Shortly after this single hearing of these pieces I began voraciously reading everything I could find on tuning topics, and eventually ended up a regular reader of this list. I also spent time and money lovingly designing and constructing my own electric JI guitar from scratch (which I enjoy playing with at least some small degree of competence, if not spectacularly dexterous). I have built up a fairly respectable understanding of the principles behind various tuning systems and snatched up lots of wonderful recordings of non-12ET music both just and tempered. All this from one completely unbiased, naive experience with real music. Strangely enough, Partch's music is based upon all of the things that Gregg Gibson so strongly objects to as being of any value-- small intervals, 7-limit intervals, 11-limit intervals, commas, and even just intonation itself! (Apparently because they do not fit into his specific 19ET theories.) As we well know, no human being could possibly find these musical elements acceptable -- only "aliens" could enjoy this. (Extraterrestrials or illegal immigrants?) And yet, somehow I was so deeply fascinated and powerfully moved. Again, I was not motivated simply by some blind adherence to my pet theories. I had none whatsoever at that time. The recent barrage of 19ET propaganda is not objectionable simply because of violations of readers' subjective pet theories to which they are desperately clinging against all reason. What is being objected to is plain and simple ridiculous false information. I know many others on this list have had similar experiences to mine. The proof of validity is not simply in some kind of chart of consonances and modulations. Any intelligent person can (and should) make calculations on a spreadsheet to try correlating mathematical aspects of tunings with psychoacoustic data. But validity is clearly demonstrated ONLY in real music's actual effect on real people. If music such as Partch's has so powerfully affected so many people, its worth is plainly obvious -- even if one person seems to object to the way in which it was created. Charts and psychoacoustic theories are nice, but there is no substitute for plain experience and simple honest enjoyment for evaluating worth. Incidently Gregg's more constructive posts (minus the obnoxious rhetoric) have actually been quite informative and have honestly increased my awareness and respect for 19ET. When I can get my hands on some fretwire (and some spare time) I plan to refret the Stratocaster in my closet to 19ET and spend a lot of time exploring. No one on the list seems to have objected the least bit to the idea that 19ET is a good system of tuning. It already seems to be probably the most widespread microtonal tuning used. So the militant tone of Gregg's insistence on 19ET is a bit peculiar. If you're trying to convince readers of the benefits of 19ET, you're preaching to the converted. If you're trying to convince members of this list that other tuning systems (and thus the music) of Partch and many other non-19ETers are worthless, you have a long and difficult road ahead of you, and I do not envy you. If Gregg can recognizably perform "Daphne of the Dunes" in 19ET I will humbly take back all of the above. kp (Sorry to belabor such obvious points. Hopefully the overly windy but somewhat rare post to this list averages out the same as contributing more reasonably-lengthed posts on a regular basis...) SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu From: Gregg Gibson Subject: Last Long Post for a While PostedDate: 20-12-97 03:38:32 SendTo: CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH ReplyTo: tuning@eartha.mills.edu $MessageStorage: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH,CN=Manuel op de Coul/OU=AT/O=EZH RouteServers: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=notesrv1/OU=Server/O=EZH RouteTimes: 20-12-97 03:36:28-20-12-97 03:36:29,20-12-97 03:36:04-20-12-97 03:36:04 DeliveredDate: 20-12-97 03:36:04 Categories: $Revisions: Received: from ns.ezh.nl ([137.174.112.59]) by notesrv2.ezh.nl (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) with SMTP id C1256573.000E4FDF; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 03:38:15 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA22415; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 03:38:32 +0100 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 03:38:32 +0100 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA22432 Received: (qmail 8367 invoked from network); 19 Dec 1997 18:38:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Dec 1997 18:38:27 -0800 Message-Id: <349B91F3.3557@ww-interlink.net> Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu