source file: mills3.txt Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:50:51 +0100 Subject: Greek chords (was RE: 19, 22, etc) From: alves@orion.ac.hmc.edu (Bill Alves) Gary Morrison wrote: > Again, I was only going back to early Renaissance times. If you go back >further than that, I must confess that I honestly have no idea if triads >were used in ancient greek music. I guess it's reasonable to suppose that >they were since Ptolemy suggested a tuning with 5:4 and 5:3 in it, but that >question is in none of my areas of expertise, I'm afraid. Well, triadic-based harmony as we usually think of it is really a European technique that begins around the turn of the 15th century (though the idea of a triad as an invertible collection is not found in theory until some time later). Most other traditional musical cultures do not use harmony in the European sense and the ancient Greeks were no exception. Now, I'm not an expert on ancient Greek music either, but when reading West's book on the subject I was struck by a remarkable fact that he documents quite clearly. Apparently, the ancient kithara (lyre) players did not just pluck out monophonic melodies as I had previously thought. In addition to plucking those melodies with the left hand, they would strum a plectrum across the strings with the right hand. Not only that, it appears that they also used the left hand to damp certain strings so that the strumming would result in a particular chord. These strums would come at cadences or other pauses when accompanying a singer, more freely in instrumental performances, and constantly in processional orchestrals. While West doesn't go into it, the implications for tuning are very important. If the Greeks had only played monophonic melodies, then clearly there would be a much greater tolerance for tuning errors, and the difference between a just and a slightly tempered interval would be mainly of academic or metaphysical interest. Thus some people were skeptical that the tunings that Ptolemy collected were anything but a kind of numerological ideal largely unrelated to actual practice. In his recent 1/1 article on difference tones, Dudley Duncan sought to address this apparent problem by proposing that the Greeks would have been sensitive to the simultaneous intervals present in the overlapping decays of successive notes. If the kitharodes were playing chords, however, they would presumably be able to clearly hear beats, and the choice between Pythagorean, just, or Aristoxenian would be of much more than theoretical interest to them. Bill ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^ ^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^ ^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^ ^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu From: Paul Hahn Subject: RE: re 19, 22, etc PostedDate: 31-12-97 01:48:31 SendTo: CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH ReplyTo: tuning@eartha.mills.edu $MessageStorage: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH,CN=Manuel op de Coul/OU=AT/O=EZH RouteServers: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=notesrv1/OU=Server/O=EZH RouteTimes: 31-12-97 01:46:12-31-12-97 01:46:14,31-12-97 01:45:36-31-12-97 01:45:36 DeliveredDate: 31-12-97 01:45:36 Categories: $Revisions: Received: from ns.ezh.nl ([137.174.112.59]) by notesrv2.ezh.nl (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) with SMTP id C125657E.00043767; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:47:59 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA28259; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:48:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:48:31 +0100 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA28006 Received: (qmail 1433 invoked from network); 30 Dec 1997 16:48:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1997 16:48:27 -0800 Message-Id: Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu