source file: mills3.txt Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:40:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Fretless versus Fretted From: mr88cet@texas.net (Gary Morrison) >Now is it better to have fretless instruments which can play any >tuning at anytime, or a Fretted one? I'd be willing to bet that John Starrett, Neil Haverstick, and several others would have lots of ideas along those lines. For whatever it's work, there is certainly no dirth of non-tuning-related considerations about whether to use frets or not. You'll get a somewhat duller tone from a fretless instrument than on a fretted one, for example. ("Dull" as in less bright, not as in boring!) Also, a fretless plucked-string instrument will have a lot less sustain than a fretted one. But since you said that you're a bassist, the heaviness of the strings themselves will reduce that distinction. >In Just Intonation, what does "limit" refer to? The limit is the largest odd or prime number (depending on who you ask) in the frequency ratios in the tuning. Most JI investigators find that each odd or prime outlines a new, broad class of harmony. I personally think that there's a lot of truth in that idea, but that there are many other factors that have to be considered, some with about equal weight. >Also, has anyone tried Irrational Ratio Intonation? >Like pi/3, pi/1, square root of 2/1, square root of 3/1, or even >square root of 2/suare root of 3? There are several tuning types that involve irrationals. As you alluded with your observation about the square-root-of-2 tritone, any equal temperament, or any kind of temperament for that matter, involves irrational numbers. Brian McLaren, Erv Wilson, and others have been investigating NJNET (NonJust, NonEqual-Tempered) tunings, which are based upon transcendental numbers like pi, e, and such. Most people on this forum, best I can tell, have found more mathematical interest in the idea than musical interest. But that is certainly not to say that it isn't musical value in them. Also, there are tunings like Wendy Carlos' Alpha, Beta, and Gamma, or the 88CET tuning I've been investigating. They are chosen not to represent ANY ratio exactly, not even the octave, but to represent some set of ratios as accurately as possible. These have generated a lot of interest, but are certainly no panacea; they're just several of many interesting tuning possibilities, each with its own intriguing "sound". And there's Charles Lucy, who promotes a meantone tuning based upon a major third of 1/pi octaves. I think it's fair to say that the majority of the discussion on this forum about "LucyTuning" has been more skeptical than positive. >Mathematically, it appears that 6 in 12tet (tritone) is square root of >2/1. Yes indeedie. What about a standard notation that can accurately capture any tuning? (freqeuncy,volume,time) Two people to talk to along those lines are Ezra Simms and Johnny Reinhard. Johnny is on the list, but I don't think Ezra is. SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu From: gagaku@cats.ucsc.edu (Fred Lieberman) Subject: Lou Harrison book on the way... PostedDate: 28-02-98 18:34:59 SendTo: CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH ReplyTo: tuning@eartha.mills.edu $MessageStorage: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH,CN=Manuel op de Coul/OU=AT/O=EZH RouteServers: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=notesrv1/OU=Server/O=EZH RouteTimes: 28-02-98 18:33:43-28-02-98 18:33:44,28-02-98 18:33:43-28-02-98 18:33:43 DeliveredDate: 28-02-98 18:33:43 Categories: $Revisions: Received: from ns.ezh.nl ([137.174.112.59]) by notesrv2.ezh.nl (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) with SMTP id C12565B9.006074A3; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:33:47 +0100 Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA13950; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:59 +0100 Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA13958 Received: (qmail 9922 invoked from network); 28 Feb 1998 09:33:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Feb 1998 09:33:51 -0800 Message-Id: Errors-To: madole@mills.edu Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu