source file: m1569.txt Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:19:28 -0500 Subject: RE: TUNING digest 1568 From: "Paul H. Erlich" > -----Original Message----- > From: tuning@eartha.mills.edu [SMTP:tuning@eartha.mills.edu] > Sent: None > To: Paul H. Erlich > Subject: TUNING digest 1568 > > TUNING Digest 1568 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: More Wilson Archive > by "Paul H. Erlich" > 2) Re: TUNING digest 1567 > by Larry.Polansky@Dartmouth.EDU (Larry Polansky) > 3) RE: consonance definition? > by "Paul H. Erlich" > 4) Re: updates to my website > by monz@juno.com > 5) Re: international microtonal conference > by monz@juno.com > 6) Re: international microtonal conference > by Lydia Ayers > 7) Conference proposals > by Leigh Smith > 8) Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple! > by Charles Lucy > 9) Re: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple! > by Gary Morrison > 10) Re: TUNING digest 1567 > by "Robin Perry" > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Topic No. 1 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:12:11 -0500 > From: "Paul H. Erlich" > To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" > Subject: Re: More Wilson Archive > Message-ID: > > Thanks, Kraig, for the great work. Wilson's work deserved to be seen > and > studied by all of us. I must complain, though, that the low resolution > of the scans (were they faxes?) has had me straining my eyes, but so > far > context has helped me to tell 3s from 5s, etc. > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 2 > > Date: 29 Oct 98 16:34:21 EST > From: Larry.Polansky@Dartmouth.EDU (Larry Polansky) > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: TUNING digest 1567 > Message-ID: <13096623@prancer.Dartmouth.EDU> > > --- You wrote: > > > Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of > consonance? > > > Robin > > --- end of quote --- > > I teach this topic a lot in my classes, robin, and there are some good > resources. historically, tenney's History of Consonance and Dissonance > is a > good reference. Mathematically, i work a lot with my students (and use > in my > own composition work) some variant of the tenney HD function, which is > very > similar to the Euler function and the barlow function (these are > explained > pretty well in Chalmer's "Divisions...".). we've done some fun things > here in > seminars with plotting the different functions over common intervals, > and so > on, and it turns out that they're all pretty similar (low primes vs. > few > exponents is the basic idea), but have some interesting differences as > well. > > > these are not cognitive functions, exactly, which would need to use > the > critical band and a heck of a lot of other things (including timbre, > context, > temporal displacement, memory, etc etc etc)... they are something more > like > very concise cognitively informed musical similarity functions (if > that makes > any sense) > > > lp > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 3 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:46:16 -0500 > From: "Paul H. Erlich" > To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" > Subject: RE: consonance definition? > Message-ID: > > >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of > consonance? > > I hope not! Consonance is not a mathematical phenomenon, it is a > psychoacoustic one. Once the ear-brain system is understood, > quantifying > consonance would thus seem possible; in fact there are at least three > distinct psychoacoustic phenomena which can be modelled mathematically > and contribute to the perception of consonance: > > (1) critical band roughness, on which Kameoka & Kuriyagawa and > Sethares > have done work on fleshing out the quantitative implications; > > (2) fundamental tracking / virtual pitch / fusion, which motivates > Parncutt's whole quantitative approach; > > (3) nonlinear combination tones, which are the basis of Bohlen's view > of > consonance and have been studied extensively by psychoacousticians > whose > names I don't remember. > > Unfortunately, these three different phenomena are not independent so > formulating a unified model of consonance seems impossibly difficult > at > the present. However, all three of these phenomena lead to the > following > conclusion, at least for tones with harmonic timbres: > > Approximate small-integer frequency ratios = Consonant intervals. > > But beyond these psychoacoustic factors, there are psychological ones > that relate to way music unfolds in time. A diminished fourth is > dissonant in 12-tET even though it sounds exactly like a major third > out > of context. As Ernst Toch pointed out, even an octave can be dissonant > in certain contexts. So even a unified model as suggested above would > have rather limited applicability. > > If you would like an elaboration of any of the above points, just ask! > (Sethares is around too). > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 4 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:56:41 -0800 > From: monz@juno.com > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: updates to my website > Message-ID: <19981029.185643.-210867.5.monz@juno.com> > > Just wanted to let y'all know that I've been > slaving away at my website. There's lots > of new stuff, new links to stuff that was > already there, and many corrections. > > (The size of non-microtonality material is > also growing -- can't help it, I'm deeply > interested in lots of other things.) > > Of particular interest to you folks would be > the Robert Johnson and Jimi Hendrix pages -- > any guitarists willing to tackle "Hendrix Chord"? > > - Joe Monzo > monz@juno.com > http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at > http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 5 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:52:28 -0800 > From: monz@juno.com > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: international microtonal conference > Message-ID: <19981029.185643.-210867.4.monz@juno.com> > > > From Fred Kohler: > > > Gary Morrison said: > > >> Hmmm... It seemed like San Diego was getting a lot of approval, > >> but whatever... > > > >I agree. San Diego was getting a lot of votes. I'd like to add my > >vote for San Diego also. > > > From Bill Alves: > > > I think that a "vote" is premature. The question is not just what > city > > is the nicest/most convenient, but what facilities, funding, concert > > > spaces, accomodations, equipment, etc. are available (unless people > > prefer to have just a short, informal get-together). I would be > > happy to go to San Diego (it's close, less work for me!). > > Sounded to me like we were reaching something resembling a > consensus on San Diego. (Of course, my opinion is biased) > > Sonic Arts would be ideal for "a short, informal get-together". > If anyone in San Diego or coming to town is interested, all it > takes is a call or email to us. > > Patrick Ozzard-Low (see Ehrlich's posting in TD 1567 re: the > Boston meeting) is now in California, and will be presenting > a seminar on new microtonal instruments here at UCSD on Monday > (November 2nd at 11:15 am in Erickson Hall -- John Fonville > has welcomed the local microtonal community to attend). > > Needless to say, Patrick will be visiting us to examine our > unique collection of instruments. Our mission is to glue > together the disparate elements of microtonalia in SoCal, > so all are welcome. > > I envisioned the international conference to be something on a > MUCH grander scale, the likes of which have never before been > seen in microtonalitydom. > > Bill's suggestions re: facilities are right-on -- it's important > to be properly prepared for something of this magnitude. The more > time spent in preparation and the more ergonomic the facilities, > the more valuable the whole experience will be for all of us. > > There are a few of us in San Diego looking into possiblities of > university sponsorship (or at least hosting). No serious decisions > should be made until a school or other facility has made an > agreement for this purpose. Then we can proceed with calls for > papers, event planning, etc. > > I have already given my support for Bill's procuring Harvey Mudd > college as a hosting-site, should nothing materialize in San Diego. > > - Joe Monzo > monz@juno.com > http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at > http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 6 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:28:34 +0800 > From: Lydia Ayers > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: international microtonal conference > Message-ID: <199810300328.LAA09191@csnt3.cs.ust.hk> > > If we were voting about the conference site, my vote would be > for the first conference to be at Harvey Mudd with Bill Alves > planning it with anybody else in the area who wants to help > out. There is no reason why the folks in San Diego couldn't > come up and help, since it's not so far away. > > Then I would vote to have another conference, a year or two > later, somewhere else, even San Diego (it wouldn't bother > me if it was in California twice in a row). Materials from > a conference that had already met once would give > the people in San Diego more to show the universities there > to convince them how worthwhile it would be to host a > > microtonal conference, as it appears that none of them are > currently on the faculty of any of those universities. Well, > unless someone like Jon Fonville (UCSD) is on board. > > I can say from experience that it's much easier with the > resources of a well-equipped university, and easier if one > > of the organizers is on the faculty there. (For example, > > when we did ICMC we had to bus people to another venue for > > most of the concerts because we don't have a real concert > > hall at HKUST, and then we had to deal with the government > > sponsor of the other venue. And to make it worse, I wasn't > > on the faculty of HKUST at the time, though the co-chair > was.) > > Frankly, for people coming from farther away (for example, > > from Hong Kong and Europe), LA might be slightly > > more convenient than San Jose, since it's an international > airport. It also has more direct routes to other places > in the US. > > Well, that's my .02 cents. > > Best, > > Lydia Ayers > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 7 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:32:42 +0800 > From: Leigh Smith > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Conference proposals > Message-ID: <9810300532.AA02064@antechinus.cs.uwa.edu.au> > > As a microtonalist in Perth, Western Australia, voting for San Diego > vs. > some other U.S. city is voting for Mars rather than Jupiter... > > It's not out of the question that I would make the effort to fly over > > (same sentiment as Lydia in HK, I understand), particularly as I > expect > to have a couple of more conferences to attend next year in the > Northern > summer. What would put me off is if I didn't think it was worthwhile, > i.e > if the conference was poorly organised, didn't have a good program of > > papers and concerts etc. > > The Int. Computer Music Conference is a model of how such a conference > > could be organised, lunch and evening concerts, daily papers, keynote > > presentations. > > I strongly suggest organising via an academic institution, with a > widely > selected panel of referees for papers and music (practictioners and > theorists) to ensure it doesn't become an ivory tower. > > The ICMC moves each year according to the hosting organisation. Given > > how cheap travelling in the U.S is (in comparison to Australia - I > have > to travel 4000Kms to get to another capital city, it's cheaper to get > to > Bali than to Sydney), I don't think the location within the > continental > U.S. should be the highest priority. > > Regards > > Leigh > --- > Leigh Computer Music Lab, Computer Science Dept, > Smith University of Western Australia > +61-8-9380-2279 leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au > (NeXTMail/MIME) > Microsoft - Where do you want to compromise today? > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 8 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:04:58 +0000 > From: Charles Lucy > To: Tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple! > Message-ID: <3639AB68.E16C16BE@ilhawaii.net> > > Robin Perry asked: > >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of > consonance? > > >Robin > > > > Yes, Robin. It seems to be determined by the number of steps between > the > pitches on the "spiral" of fourths and fifths. > > More steps - more dissonant. > Less steps - more consonant. > > Simple, pragmatic and it works! > > > For details see LucyTuning site > -- > ~===============================================================~ > Charles Lucy - lucy@harmonics.com (LucyScaleDevelopments) > ------------ Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning ------- > by setting tuning and harmonic standards for the next millennium, > and having fun with them. > > for information on LucyTuning. > See http://www.ilhawaii.net/~lucy > or mirrors at: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~harmonic > and http://www.harmonics.com > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 9 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:09:31 -0500 > From: Gary Morrison > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple! > Message-ID: <3639AC74.6F9762BD@texas.net> > > Charles Lucy wrote: > > > Robin Perry asked: > > >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of > consonance? > > > Yes, Robin. It seems to be determined by the number of steps between > the > > pitches on the "spiral" of fourths and fifths. > > (Predictable...) > > Well Mr. Lucy, I am at a lack to think of *ANY* concept of > consonance in > which a harmonic major second (two steps up the circle of fifths), > would be > more consonant than a harmonic major third (four steps up the circle). > Nor > can I think of any reasoning whereby a major sixth would be regarded > as > anything even close to 33% more consonant than a major third. > > Also, this says nothing of the distinction between 81:64 and 5:4, > when the > consonance difference between the two has been a major historical > driving > force in musical-tuning evolution. > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 10 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:19:04 PST > From: "Robin Perry" > To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu > Subject: Re: TUNING digest 1567 > Message-ID: <19981030191905.12579.qmail@hotmail.com> > > > Neil Haverstick said: > > > Let's do the meeting in Denver; then the East Coast folks won't > have > >to go so far, everyone can go skiing, and we won't have to worry > about > >the giant earthquake that is going to swallow the West Coast...Hstick > > > Obviously Neil doesn't know that the famous psychic Murphy has > predicted that everything east of the San Andreas Fault is about > to fall into the Atlantic. > > Perhaps we should think about narrowing the focus to the western > oriented folks for this conference. Not that I want to exclude those > in > parts East, but there does seem to be more expressed interest in doing > > something in San Diego. Dever is definitely nice in the summer, > though there is not much skiing going on. > > Joe Monzo, are you and your friends there ready and willing to set > something up? Or are we better off working toward L.A. area? > > I would offer to try to set something up here in the Sonoran Desert, > but summer temps get up to 122 lately. That's why Phoenix has > such great summer rates. > > Robin > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of TUNING Digest 1568 > *************************