Lissajous 3D => How do I => Topic started by: Rickeyjt on October 24, 2010, 07:06:27 PM

Forum for Tune Smithy, Bounce Metronome and other software from Robert Inventor

Title: just intonation tuning images
Post by: Rickeyjt on October 24, 2010, 07:06:27 PM
I read somewhere on the site about being able to visualize just intonation between two or maybe more notes in a chord.  I have a license for Lissajous 3D.  How do I get the program to listen to my microphone and show me a perfect just intonation pattern between two notes.  I would like to use this technique to tune the reeds on my harmonicas.


Title: Re: just intonation tuning images
Post by: Robert Walker on October 25, 2010, 01:44:15 PM
Rick, Sorry, Lissajous 3D can't do this.

The thing is - it shows you the theoretical, or predicted Lissajous patterns. It's not like a conventional oscilloscope which uses the sounds themselves to generate the patterns.

What you can do is to play just intonation chords in Tune Smithy, and as you play the chords, the Lissajous 3D images will change to show the patterns associated with those chords. So Tune Smithy calculates the exact midi notes and pitch bends and sends those via Midi to play the notes, and at the same time sends the chord intervals to Lissajous 3D so that it can display the correct  pattern for the chord.

Now, you can still use Tune Smithy, even as it is now, to analyse a recording of a chord played for a few seconds. You could use that analysis to find the frequencies. You could then play those frequencies in FTS and show the result in Lissajous 3D as a Lissajous pattern.

So that's kind of promising - but to be useful for tuning, you want an instantaneous or almost instantaneous response as you adjust the tuning. I don't think FTS will be able to do that. The main problem is that the Lissajous pattern would lag behind the recording I think enough to make it hard to use for tuning purposes.

So unfortunately I think I'll have to say it can't be done.

I've added it to the wish list for FTS for the future, so if I get the time I'll take a closer look at it just in case. FTS is able to find the frequency accurately for a very short time slice - for some types of note - but that feature is best suited for monophonic lines so not very useful in this situation.

Tune Smithy Wish List - Show Lissajous pattern for a chord played via microphone in real time, to help with tuning (

If this was your reason for buying Lissajous 3D, then you can return your unlock key and I will issue a refund.

Title: Re: just intonation tuning images
Post by: Rickeyjt on October 31, 2010, 04:19:14 PM
I did not see you replied because my spam caught it.

I want to tune my harmonicas.  So it sounded like wow to get a picture of the harmonic relationship between two reeds at a moment in time would of course be helpful.  To be able to recognize such a pattern when two notes are played together would tell more than only playing one against a calibrated single note strobe wheel.

One of my aliases is Harmonica Einstein.  A bit tongue and cheek and I like to say 'What will he think of next?'.  I have invented a few things in my life and most recent is the Tuning Table at  The reed plinker at is another one for harp players.

I did not buy the Lissajous module of Tune Smithy for just this purpose.  It was intriguing to me to try to apply it in such a way.  I'm not sure what to do with it yet but as a child of the sixties I get it.  Love the screen saver, ha!

You are the real genius.  When you get time please look into fooling the program into doing it.  As you suggest, recording and playing back through FTS, etc.  That is it sounds like maybe you are trying to buy time to process the image.  A loop recorder that processes the delayed short pieces maybe a crack in the door.

Title: Re: just intonation tuning images
Post by: Robert Walker on October 31, 2010, 06:36:33 PM
Easily happens - spam filter. Same here sometimes - virginmedia seems to always filter these posts into its spam folder - but it's not on any blacklist I can find, checked that - so no idea why it does that, never gets mixed up about anything else and no matter how many times I report this forum as not spam it still keeps putting the forum notifications from this forum into the spam folder...

Yes it's a neat idea. As it's on the wish list, I'll look at it again if I get some time. Could do the rest certainly apart from the lag for the latency issue and even if it takes seconds to get a reasonably accurate Lissajous pattern, if not useful for tuning, could be nice thing to look at and kind of help as confirmation. With the shade to background feature for patterns that don't join up you would see a sudden change to a simple pattern with solid colour when the exact just intonation tuning is reached (maybe with some very small tolerance).

I wondered if anyone else has done it already, and just had a google and found another program that does this, Japanese site:
Guitar tuning by XY mode of oscilloscope ( Not tested it or downloaded it yet.

Good to hear about your inventions, keep it up!

Also glad to hear you like Lissajous 3D, and the screensaver too :). I had a lot of fun making that.