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Forum for Tune Smithy, Bounce Metronome and other software from Robert Inventor
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10
 on: October 31, 2010, 06:36:33 PM 
Started by Rickeyjt - Last post by Robert Walker
Easily happens - spam filter. Same here sometimes - virginmedia seems to always filter these posts into its spam folder - but it's not on any blacklist I can find, checked that - so no idea why it does that, never gets mixed up about anything else and no matter how many times I report this forum as not spam it still keeps putting the forum notifications from this forum into the spam folder...

Yes it's a neat idea. As it's on the wish list, I'll look at it again if I get some time. Could do the rest certainly apart from the lag for the latency issue and even if it takes seconds to get a reasonably accurate Lissajous pattern, if not useful for tuning, could be nice thing to look at and kind of help as confirmation. With the shade to background feature for patterns that don't join up you would see a sudden change to a simple pattern with solid colour when the exact just intonation tuning is reached (maybe with some very small tolerance).

I wondered if anyone else has done it already, and just had a google and found another program that does this, Japanese site:
Guitar tuning by XY mode of oscilloscope. Not tested it or downloaded it yet.

Good to hear about your inventions, keep it up!

Also glad to hear you like Lissajous 3D, and the screensaver too Smiley. I had a lot of fun making that.



 on: October 31, 2010, 04:40:40 PM 
Started by Rickeyjt - Last post by Rickeyjt
I know little about conductor patterns except for some recent googling on the subject.  One thing I notice is all your conductor strokes tied to each beat are a visual downstroke on the plane of the horizontal base.  Some patterns I have seen used also can put a downbeat at the top of the upstroke.  I do not know what is 'correct' or more common.  Perhaps an option to create them that way?  Your comments . . .

 on: October 31, 2010, 04:29:41 PM 
Started by Robert Walker - Last post by Rickeyjt
For iPhone.  I love all the fractal stuff you provide.  I am a big fan of Kenny Werner's Effortless Mastery.  Your fractal random pieces facilitate the extreme in free play play-along.  It is how we fly without wings or play with no purpose and without thinking.  This is essential in achieving true freedom and confidence on your instrument.

Frozen Ape makes a fairly good visual metronome for the iPhone.  You offer far more that you could bring to the platform. 

I like being able to program tempo changes over periods of time.  As I use it more I will post other ideas.

 on: October 31, 2010, 04:19:14 PM 
Started by Rickeyjt - Last post by Rickeyjt
I did not see you replied because my spam caught it.

I want to tune my harmonicas.  So it sounded like wow to get a picture of the harmonic relationship between two reeds at a moment in time would of course be helpful.  To be able to recognize such a pattern when two notes are played together would tell more than only playing one against a calibrated single note strobe wheel.

One of my aliases is Harmonica Einstein.  A bit tongue and cheek and I like to say 'What will he think of next?'.  I have invented a few things in my life and most recent is the Tuning Table at  The reed plinker at is another one for harp players.

I did not buy the Lissajous module of Tune Smithy for just this purpose.  It was intriguing to me to try to apply it in such a way.  I'm not sure what to do with it yet but as a child of the sixties I get it.  Love the screen saver, ha!

You are the real genius.  When you get time please look into fooling the program into doing it.  As you suggest, recording and playing back through FTS, etc.  That is it sounds like maybe you are trying to buy time to process the image.  A loop recorder that processes the delayed short pieces maybe a crack in the door.

 on: October 25, 2010, 01:44:15 PM 
Started by Rickeyjt - Last post by Robert Walker
Rick, Sorry, Lissajous 3D can't do this.

The thing is - it shows you the theoretical, or predicted Lissajous patterns. It's not like a conventional oscilloscope which uses the sounds themselves to generate the patterns.

What you can do is to play just intonation chords in Tune Smithy, and as you play the chords, the Lissajous 3D images will change to show the patterns associated with those chords. So Tune Smithy calculates the exact midi notes and pitch bends and sends those via Midi to play the notes, and at the same time sends the chord intervals to Lissajous 3D so that it can display the correct  pattern for the chord.

Now, you can still use Tune Smithy, even as it is now, to analyse a recording of a chord played for a few seconds. You could use that analysis to find the frequencies. You could then play those frequencies in FTS and show the result in Lissajous 3D as a Lissajous pattern.

So that's kind of promising - but to be useful for tuning, you want an instantaneous or almost instantaneous response as you adjust the tuning. I don't think FTS will be able to do that. The main problem is that the Lissajous pattern would lag behind the recording I think enough to make it hard to use for tuning purposes.

So unfortunately I think I'll have to say it can't be done.

I've added it to the wish list for FTS for the future, so if I get the time I'll take a closer look at it just in case. FTS is able to find the frequency accurately for a very short time slice - for some types of note - but that feature is best suited for monophonic lines so not very useful in this situation.

Tune Smithy Wish List - Show Lissajous pattern for a chord played via microphone in real time, to help with tuning

If this was your reason for buying Lissajous 3D, then you can return your unlock key and I will issue a refund.

 on: October 24, 2010, 07:06:27 PM 
Started by Rickeyjt - Last post by Rickeyjt
I read somewhere on the site about being able to visualize just intonation between two or maybe more notes in a chord.  I have a license for Lissajous 3D.  How do I get the program to listen to my microphone and show me a perfect just intonation pattern between two notes.  I would like to use this technique to tune the reeds on my harmonicas.


 on: October 05, 2010, 09:08:59 AM 
Started by DanieLionius - Last post by Robert Walker
Glad to hear your exams went well.

I'm pretty busy again right now but will look into the batch processing when I have a bit of time to work on FTS again.

One idea is to do a soundfont for twelve equal. I know you are interested in just intonation - but if you make it twelve equal, then with pitch bends you can retune it to whatever tuning you like. Much more flexible, and you would then be able to use it with Tune Smithy.

Even with just intonation, any just intonation twelve equal key will only work for some chords, as I expect you know. E.g. with a C major scale just intonation you can't have the C G D A E fifths all pure and also have the C to E interval a pure 5/4, (because of course the fifths make it an 81/64 instead) so one or the other has to be sacrificed. Normally since the aim is to be able to play at least some pure 5/4 thirds, you make it so the A to E is no longer a pure fifth.

But if you tune it accurately to twelve equal and then play it through e.g. FTS then you can play any just intonation scale and any other tuning you like.

Of course - depending on the pitch bend accuracy of whatever you use to play the sound font.

If your soundcard font player isn't accurate enough, I wonder if software may do it better.

Did you try SyFonOne?

I haven't tested it for pitch accuracy yet, so don't know how good it is but might be worth a try, might solve the problem.

Yes indeed, the attack and decay will surely affect the pitch measurement. With a long sustain and measuring it on the sustain then you would expect more consistent measurements. Also if beats are the main thing you are interested in i.e. to play beatless just intonation chords, then the sustained part of the note is what matters most as that is the part that is playing when you hear the beats.

With the hex editing trick, then you should be able to retain the original loop points as you don't need to edit the sample at all except to vary the number near the head of the file to specify the intended frequency. Though the original loop points might still cause artefacts depending on how careful the soundfont designer was.

Sorry can't really help there as I haven't tried varying the loop points of samples in sound fonts myself, and never made my own soundfont.

This is just a quick post as I'm in the middle of complicated coding and debugging for Bounce Metronome Pro and the FTS Lambdoma software right now.

Will take a look at what you've done and have a look at the batch processing possibilities in FTS 3 when I have a bit more time.



 on: October 03, 2010, 10:17:24 PM 
Started by DanieLionius - Last post by DanieLionius
Nylon String Guitar Bank Soundfont (tuned to Just Intonation C Ionian), (work in progress).

 on: October 03, 2010, 09:36:56 PM 
Started by DanieLionius - Last post by DanieLionius
Smiley G'day Robert,

Well, it's been a while. You'll be glad to know I did well at my study - got through the exams.
I have pretty much given up on tuning the XG synths because they only have a resolution of about 1.3 cents.
So now, as far as music is concerned I have finished my guitar drawings and have some engineers looking at them. As for synths, I think probably I should move onto samplers and look closely how waveforms can be generated to define pitch and timbre etc.........

As for sampling, the first go I had was creating a soundfont. I realised the problem I had with the Creative card is that the Soundfont player only has a resolution of about 1.5 cents. So I went back to the samples and retuned them using the trick you showed me to change the sample rate, using WinHex etc. This works really well, and shows me that the pitch detection in Analyse Task in Tune Smithy is doing something right, because when I analyse the sample and then change the sample rate the detection is within 0.02 of a cent every time! So I created a nylon string guitar bank which you can check out if you wish below.
 Unfortunately there are some problems: When I use the Soundfont Synth on the card to play back a sample in the bank, I record this and then analyse it but unfortunately the pitches vary between 0.1 - 0.7 cent. I realized this could be any number of things: the velocity curve actually has an effect on pitch, the audigy card is not playing the sample back correctly; the audigy card could be a wavetable player, thus limited in ability to read samples; the soundfont is not correctly set up: a change in the attack or decay time could affect the overall pitch reading; Tune Smithy is counting waves over time, therefore the time and any vacant space in the recording might effect the result???; and the list goes on.

Still, I believe I'm making progress. The font below demonstrates that in the C4-C5 range the pitch for a just C scale is good to about 0.3 cent. So a few things need to happen in order for me to make this work…..

1)   Will need to understand pitch detection, and use best method where possible.
2)   Need to understand how the amplitude envelope affects pitch, and the best place to take a pitch reading.
3)   Need to create the best loop points in original sample, which because of stupid bit and sampling rates, keep causing glitches in my sound (is it possible to ever get these right?).
4)   The analysis should be predominately be done on the sustain portion of the note and/or the loop.
5)   Make sure sample player is playing back the sample exactly as-is!
6)   An automated process of retuning would really help, i.e. have a sample analysed, looped and ready to go; define it’s pitch range; generate the sample rates for that scale in spreadsheet (done); output file names and sample rates (in .csv format); run as script into wave editor and generate .wavs; import into sample (Vienna) and define ranges.
So, it’s plain to see it’s a lot of work to make a sound bank! I guess where you could help if possible is in letting me do a batch process of analysing pitch and then outputting the fundamental pitches into a format that can be imported into spreadsheet (say excel, .csv). Then the sheet will apply sample rate retunes to file names which can be run through a file editor (I don’t know how to do this yet, WinHex?). That will take care of most of the work.

Oh! I haven’t dismissed Tune Smithy as a Midi interface (it would be really awesome with a continuous pitch wheel, such as an analogue synth) and is great for generating preset scales and midi files.

Look forward to your knowledgeable advice and ideas,

Daniel Luke Ivkovic.

 on: September 08, 2010, 05:42:17 AM 
Started by vaisvil - Last post by vaisvil



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