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Message: 5603 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:56:47 Subject: Re: Adaptive JI notated on staff From: monz i added Dave's graphic and a MIDI-file of it to my "adaptive-JI" definition: Definitions of tuning terms: adaptive JI, (c) 2000 by Joe Monzo * -monz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@xx.xxx.xx> To: <tuning-math@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:01 PM Subject: [tuning-math] Re: Adaptive JI notated on staff > --- In tuning-math@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote: > > --- In tuning-math@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote: > > > > right, but i'd like to see this actually notated, on a staff. > > Here it is. > Yahoo groups: /tuning-math/files/Dave/AdaptiveJI.bmp *
Message: 5606 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:01:48 Subject: Re: Adaptive JI notated on staff From: Dave Keenan --- In tuning-math@y..., "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote: > --- In tuning-math@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote: > > --- In tuning-math@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote: > > > right, but i'd like to see this actually notated, on a staff. > > > > Here it is. > > Yahoo groups: /tuning-math/files/Dave/AdaptiveJI.bmp * > > this notation . . . personally, it doesn't do much for me -- for > example, looking at this 217-equal example, > > Yahoo groups: /tuning-math/files/Dave/AdaptiveJI.bmp * > > only a few of the pure thirds are immediately recognizable from the > notation, unless you've memorized all the symbols and the order in > which they occur in 217-equal. the symbol for a syntonic comma > alteration will quickly be learned by any user of the system, but all > the sets of symbols whose difference is a syntonic comma in a given > tuning? Hi Paul. Thanks for your belated response. I totally agree with you re the adaptive JI example. But surely you're not rejecting all possible uses of the notation on the basis of that? I gave that example, not because I thought it was a particularly good use of the notation, but in response to your request in message 3993: > > i think it would be cool if someone notated the adaptive-ji version > > of the chord progression > > > > Cmajor -> A minor -> D minor -> G major -> C major > > > > in 217-equal. then we could all look at it and see if we have any > > major problems with it. Can you tell us what you expect of a notation for 217-ET? How might it be done better so the pure thirds could all be immediately recognisable? Surely any notation for something as large as 217-ET will require a significant learning curve? Why not tell us instead how you feel about the way the notation would work in your old favourite, 22-ET. It only needs one pair of new symbols /| (for the 5-comma), and its semantics are the same as the standard Scala one I've been promoting for ages, and I think it has the same semantics as the one Alison Monteith uses. Or in 31-ET, where there is also only one new pair of symbols /|\ which are simultaneously the 7-comma and the 11-comma (a semi-sharp in this case). Or in 72-ET where its semantics are identical to the Sims notation. Only the symbols change. /| |) /|\
Message: 5612 Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:18:19 Subject: Re: Adaptive JI notated on staff From: monz > From: "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@xxxxx.xxx> > To: <tuning-math@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:29 PM > Subject: [tuning-math] Re: Adaptive JI notated on staff > > > --- In tuning-math@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote: > > i added Dave's graphic and a MIDI-file of it to my > > "adaptive-JI" definition: > > > > Definitions of tuning terms: adaptive JI, (c) 2000 by Joe Monzo * > > > you mention vicentino, but don't link to your fine > page about him. note that the example in question > (dave's) is a perfect illustration of what makes > vicentino's tuning so good. thanks, paul. actually, i mentioned Vicentino twice on the adaptive-JI definition page, and provided a link to my Vicentino page at the second mention ... i had just missed the first one, and a link has been added now. hmmm ... should i include the Dave's illustration of the 217edo comma-pump progression on my Vicentino page? -monz
Message: 5624 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:07:53 Subject: Re: Even more ridiculous 5-comma list From: Pierre Lamothe How the harmonic entropy approach could be conciliate with this approach? Goethe said: (excuse for that bad translation from French) "Do you want to penetrate the infinity? Go always away and in all directions in the finity." In that sense I understand well the necessity to go away and far in all directions at same time, but it could be already useful to confront, relatively to our capacity to perceive a kind of harmonic order, the over optimism implied by the fanciest commas, with the slight pessimism, in my opinion, of the harmonic entropy. ( It's not there an attack against the harmonic entropy. I believe only the approach appears slightly pessimistic for the level is the sensation one, so neglecting contextual reinforcement arising at perception level. ) Once the word ridiculous has been used, as to suggest one have to think at the limit, one have to elaborate on the sense of a such limit. There is not only one valid perspective, but I believe we have to distinguish minimally the perceptual one concerning the music and the technical one concerning the luthery. Where abondant decimals of cents may have sense in the technical perspective, it becomes rather ridiculous (indeed) in the musical perspective. So, I invite to reflexion in view to precise sense and perspective of these few notions illustrated with so much buch of numbers. Pierre [This message contained attachments]
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