This page may be out of date. Submit any pending changes before refreshing this page.
Hide this message.
Quora uses cookies to improve your experience. Read more
Robert Walker
Seems they can e.g. in Soto Zen

Neither Monk nor Layman:


I'm not sure how that is possible.

But there is the story that the Buddha said that some of the vows of the monk were major rules that need to be kept and others were minor rules that cold be dropped. But he wasn't asked by his followers to clarify which were which.

So - it's left as an open question nobody has a definite answer to. Therevadhan monks usually keep more of the vows than Mahayana monks, including things like only eating before midday.

There is a great long list of several hundred rules, many of which seem surely minor - such as never handling money and always wearing the monk's robes, or that rule about not eating at all after midday. But are they minor or - if only someone had thought to ask - would the Buddha have said one of these was a major rule? Nobody can say, definitively.

 To many it seems reasonable to drop those when they seem inappropriate - at least not always keep them. They would do this out of compassion for others to make it easier to take part in modern society.

I'm not sure how this works in Japan. Are they treating the vow of celibacy as a minor rule also? Or is it some other way of thinking about it?

In nearly all the other traditions, Buddhist monks have to be celibate however - and that's treated as one of the major rules.

Though in all the traditions (apart maybe from a few sects with unusual beliefs) - if a Budhdist monk decides to hand back his robes (or nun likewise) he can do it at any time. It is an easy thing to do, they don't need to find their preceptor to do it, don't even need to find another Buddhist to do it.

They just need to say to anyone of sound mind who can understand clearly what they are saying, that they are handing back the monk's robes and that's it done. With immediate effect, they can now get married or do any of the things lay people do. But are no longer a monk or nun.

In some traditions it is common for young lay people to become a novice monk or nun for a few weeks as they reach maturity, just to make a connection with that life and path - and then to hand back their robes after that, having made the connection, and return to their lay life.

In Japan though, apparently they took it one step further in the Soto Zen lineage (and some other Japanese schools), giving rise to this tradition of married Japanese monks and nuns.

The Buddhist monk Saichô (767-822) dared to abrogate the multitude of traditional small precepts in favour of the sole precept to «awaken to the fundamental one-mind of Mahayana». He established a ceremony for the taking of this precept and built a Mahayana ordination platform for the purpose on Mount Hiei near Kyoto. Since then, various branches of Japanese Buddhism have adhered to this. But Zen, following in the steps of its Chinese tradition, upheld an original structure of mutual complementarity of the monastic and secular communities and thus did not completely give way to lay Buddhism. Although this was a contradictory compromise of a kind that is again different from that of Southeast Asian Buddhism, one can say that the realization of this kind of contradiction bears potential for the future. However, it also proved to be a cause for confusion in monastic Japanese Buddhism.

From: the View of a Zen Monk from Japan - read  it to get more of an understanding of the Zen view on ordination.

There's another account here Monks, Nuns & Priests in Western Zen

About the Author

Robert Walker

Robert Walker

Writer of articles on Mars and Space issues - Software Developer of Tune Smithy, Bounce Metronome etc.
Studied at Wolfson College, Oxford
Lives in Isle of Mull
4.8m answer views110.4k this month
Top Writer2017, 2016, and 2015
Published WriterHuffPost, Slate, and 4 more